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Debate with a Doc

By Karl C. Priest 12-27-20 (revised 1-1-21)

After reading a dogmatic article I responded to the author who is a Professor Emeritus in psychology at a nearby university. I have deleted his name because this is not a personal attack. Rather it is a record of the lack of logic of intellectuals who are “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (2 Timothy 3:7)

The email exchange follows.

FROM KARL

Subject: Re: Your article “The liberal leanings of Jesus Christ”

Sat, Dec 19, 2020 7:15 pm

Dear Dr.:

Regarding your article “The liberal leanings of Jesus Christ” (Charleston Gazette-Mail 12-18-20), it is wonderful that you take such an interest in what Jesus thinks.

For brevity, I will focus on what you wrote regarding Jesus and abortion.

Since Jesus is God (John 1:1-14, John 14:9, Philippians 2:6-7), please tell me what God was while He was in Mary’s womb. Was He just a clump of cells? If you just want to consider science, please consider this image and this image.

Dr. , you said that “Scripture powerfully suggests” that Jesus would support liberal positions. Here are some scriptures that do much more than simply suggest that Jesus would support the fact that the pre-born baby is fully human: Jeremiah 1:5 and Psalm 139:13-14.

If you would accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you would gain insight into what Jesus really says regarding the things you discussed in your article. Here is how:

“As it is written: There is none righteous, no not one.” Romans 3:10

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:9-10

I hope that this will be a Blessed CHRISTmas for you this year Dr. .

Sincerely,

Karl Priest

………………………………………..

FIRST RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Sat, Dec 19, 2020 7:44 pm

Thank you for your message. Regarding abortion, in your view, when does life begin?

FROM KARL

Sat, Dec 19, 2020 7:51 pm

Dr. :

Life Begins at Fertilization (1)

Karl

SECOND RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Sun, Dec 20, 2020 11:55 pm

When does fertilization occur? Is it when a sperm is swimming toward an egg? Or when the head of the sperm touches the edge of an egg but has yet to penetrate the edge? Or when the head has penetrated but the tail is still outside? Or when the sperm is fully inside but the DNA of sperm and egg have not yet combined? Or when the DNA of the two combines? Or when the cell divides for the first time? Or when the cell division has occurred so many times that the original egg bursts? Or some other time?

I ask your thinking on the matter, Karl, because the moment of fertilization is open to question.

Related, in your thinking, when does conception occur? Is it the same moment as fertilization or at some other time?

Thank you in advance for getting back to me with your notions on this.

Mon, Dec 21, 2020 12:52 pm

FROM KARL

During the first 24 hours, once the sperm and egg bind to each other, the membranes of these two cells fuse, creating in less than a second a single hybrid cell: the zygote, or one-cell embryo . (2)

Definition of embryo (3)
1a: an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems especially : the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Romans 1:18

THIRD RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Mon, Dec 21, 2020 10:28 pm

Thank you Karl. I appreciate your getting back to me on this. I beg your indulgence, with a couple more questions as to your thinking.

You wrote “During the first 24 hours...” The first 24 hours of what? Or after what?

Also, you said, “the cell membranes fuse.” I’m sure you realize this is a process, as the sperm must struggle it’s way inside the egg. Once in there, the touching of membranes is well behind them although the DNA has not yet combined. So, is it your view that life begins before the DNA combines?

Again, many thanks for clarifying.

FROM KARL

Mon, Dec 21, 2020 11:37 pm

I quoted medical experts and included the link. You should ask them if you need more information.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20

FOURTH RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 9:26 am

Karl, I was simply asking your opinion based on the available facts as provided by the medical experts. To simply refer me to those same experts, as you now are doing, seems to suggest that you may not have thought this through. I asked, simply, “Are you saying that life begins before the DNA combines?

Seems like a pretty plain question.

Have a good day.

FROM KARL

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 12:45 pm

Dear Dr. :

My answer was clear, but I will say it again and add that life begins when "the sperm and egg bind to each other."

Now, please answer this question:

At what point during a pregnancy do you object to the pre-born baby being killed?

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:21-22

Thank you.

Karl

FIFTH RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 5:13 pm

Karl, I’m in hopes that you will clarify exactly when sperm and egg “bind to each other. “ you seem to be avoiding that question by referring me to medical literature, rather than simply letting me know precisely when, within the process of “binding”, life begins. I should think you have your own thoughts on that.

FROM KARL

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 7:13 pm

Dr. :

I answered the question directly--no avoidance. Perhaps the following will help. It is the best I can do.

"When the sperm cell finally reaches the egg cell, the plasma membranes of the two cells fuse together and the sperm releases its genetic material into the egg. At this point, fertilization has occurred."

Now, you neglected to answer my question, so I will try one more time: At what point during a pregnancy do you object to the pre-born baby being killed?

Also, do you think that Romans 1:23-32 is an accurate description of a lot of highly educated people in America today?

I look forward to seeing your answers.

Thank you.

Karl

SIXTH RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 9:26 am

Seems like a pretty plain question.

Have a good day.

FROM KARL

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 12:45 pm

Dear Dr. :

My answer was clear, but I will say it again and add that life begins when "the sperm and egg bind to each other."

Now, please answer this question:

At what point during a pregnancy do you object to the pre-born baby being killed?

Thank you.

Karl

SEVENTH RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 8:01 pm

Karl, you have given an answer that provides no definition or description of the “binding” process. Which is what I inquired about and you seem to have avoided. Perhaps you haven’t thought about that up to now.

I believe in a woman’s right to abortion up to the time of viability of a baby outside the mother. Also, I believe that people who do not believe in abortion should not have one.

FROM KARL

Wed, Dec 23, 2020 2:43 pm

Dr. :

I cannot be more clear.

As for viability, do you mean that the baby can live on its own.

Regarding your last statement: "I believe that people who do not believe in murder should not commit murder." makes as much sense.

Also, one more try, do you think that Romans 1:23-32 is an accurate description of a lot of highly educated people in America today?

Karl

EIGHTH RESPONSE

FROM THE DOC

Wed, Dec 23, 2020 9:33 pm

Karl, unfortunately, for me (though I suspect also for anyone reading your response to my questions about when life begins) in my view, you haven’t identified the point of the fertilization process that speaks to the issue. Like many good folks such as yourself who say “At conception”, yours is an unsatisfactory answer because conception is a process with a number of steps.

Now your second point, “people who do not believe in murder...” seems to assume that abortion is murder, which I understand is your position. But in so saying, you have merely restated the argument rather than shed light on it.

As for your last question, I think the section of Romans you reference pretty accurately describes at least a few academic types today, as it always has. And it describes many members of the Trump administration including Donald himself, and it describes more members of the clergy than we wish it did, as well as some members of the law enforcement community, the military... in other words, you have focused on academicians for no valid reason.

Be well, Karl. And have a good Christmas .

FROM KARL

Thu, Dec 24, 2020 12:19 pm

Dear Dr. :

Thank you for answering the questions.

Here is a question for you to answer to God, not me.

“For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?” Matthew 16:26

Again, here is how you can be saved:

“As it is written: There is none righteous, no not one.” Romans 3:10

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15

I hope that this will be a blessed CHRISTmas for you this year Dr. .

I will pray that God will continue to deal with your heart because "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27

Sincerely,

Karl

---------------------------------------------------

I wrote the following letter to the Gazette-Mail on Sat, Dec 19, 2020 7:27 pm. It was not published. (i.e. It was censored.) It was not published. (i.e. It was censored.) The Gazette-Mail had previously censored my response to another of this leftist professor’s diatribes.)

Dear Editor:

Regarding Dr. ____’s article “The liberal leanings of Jesus Christ” (Charleston Gazette-Mail 12-18-20, pg.4A), it is wonderful that he takes such an interest in what Jesus thinks.

For brevity, I will focus on what he wrote regarding Jesus and abortion.

Since Jesus is God (John 1:1-14, John 14:9, Philippians 2:6-7), what was God was while He was in Mary’s womb? Was He just a clump of cells? If one just wants to consider science, please consider this image (https://www.ehd.org/gallery/477/7%C2%BD-Week-Embryo) and this image (http://www.prolifemississippi.org/Pages/ProLifeIssues/AbortionPictures.html).

Dr. ____ said that “Scripture powerfully suggests” that Jesus would support liberal positions. Here are some scriptures that do much more than simply suggest that Jesus would support the fact that the pre-born baby is fully human: Jeremiah 1:5 and Psalm 139:13-14.

If liberals, like Dr. , would accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they would gain insight into what Jesus really says regarding the things discussed in the article. Here is how:

“As it is written: There is none righteous, no not one.” Romans 3:10

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

I hope that this will be a Blessed CHRISTmas this year for Dr. ____ and other liberals.

Karl Priest

(1) ABSTRACT: The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins.
https://acpeds.org/position-statements/when-human-life-begins

(2) op. cit.

(3) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/embryo

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